Curse

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Well....see what happens when Mother goes away for a couple hours? The naughty little children go WAAAAY off topic.

A few people managed to stay on topic and I thank you.

Now then...if you've not already responded on whether or not you'd like to see ANet give at least a -short- explanation of the update, please do. Otherwise, if it's not on topic, Principa will smite you and this thread.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 14, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the fact that you don't understand that Guild Wars has an economy VERY similar to that of MOST places in the world....makes this conversation moot.

I completely understand that Guild Wars has an economy. What is your point?

Perhaps the fact that part of the economy works off of supply-and-demand trading, and other parts of the economy do not is a major part of the problem.

The abundance of cheap gold presses prices on some items up (as the laws of supply and demand dictate). So, in an effort to nerf the gold trading and such, if you reduce the available gold, the prices will come down, and less gold will be necessary to get the good items. Less demand on the professional gold farmers will help get the "luxury" amrket under control.

But that does not address the issue of fixed cost items. It just makes them harder to get - thereby increasing the need to try to farm, and having to spend more time farming (or, if you prefer, paying more money to some Chinese farmers). It hurts those of us who are just trying to play through the game - not trying to get rich, 1-up, or defeat anyone.

Maybe that was your opint - if so, you didn't present it well. If not, then explain yourself, becauswe it appears that you are trying to argue against something that is a constant.

Algren Cole · Jul 14, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty-gw

While I understand what your trying to say, I disagree. Obviously people don't have more gold than they could spend. The fluctuating and ever-increasing prices of desireable equipment in this game is proof that people are spending gold to obtain these items and that raises their prices based on the supply and demand economy system in GW.

If they nerf farming and gold drops, it will affect everyone, but it will negatively affect the casual gamer the most.

I say let the grinders and the farmers keep on keeping on. If the items everyone needs and wants were a bit more balanced, and obtainable through "A-net endorsed gameplay style", casual gamers would have legitimate goals to achieve.

The best part about it would be that the people who claim to "love" farming would cease that activity promptly.

Just some thoughts.

I absolutely agree with you....I don't think that what ArenaNet is doing is going to work....but I'm pretty sure(kinda sorta sure) that this is what they are attempting to do. Remove the gold from the economy and drop the prices on the "fixed price" items....Do I think it's possible at this point...absolutely not. They didn't plan for this and they didn't expect it(I'm not sure why or how but it's obvious that they didn't)...and at the point the game is at now they need to start brainstorming a different fix for this. Because removing the gold fom the economy in an attempt to bring prices down to a reasonable level....isn't reachable in a time frame that will keep anyone interested in playing.

Damon: How is the price of armor a constant? because you can't change it? the developers can change whatever they want...armor isn't a fixed price. It's just not an item that fluctuates. If Arena were so inclined they could change the prices of armor to be anything they wanted it to be...it's not fixed price...it's "fixed price to you"....it can still be changed at any time. Armor is a gold sink, it takes gold out of the economy and does nothing with it....if the gold isn't there anymore how can they possible charge you for it.

not to mention...the price of armor is basically nothing. except for the gold sink armors(15K and 100K)....which were purposely put into the game to remove gold from the economy....the offer you nothing but a different look. The prices on these armors specifically would drop drastically if the gold counts weren't in the 100plat area for alot of players.

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

And you DON'T HAVE to grind to play the game. If you'd look at my post as a whole, I agree with you - I don't see a reason to discourage farming. You don't NEED a 15k armor. You don't NEED to pay 30k for 5 more hp than 1k would have bought you. But you and I both WANT them, and I don't see how making them completely unattainable helps the game in any way.

I think there should be some items extremely difficult and expensive to get. Let's face it's pretty much the icing on the cake for people who play MMORPGs.

The trouble is (in my opinion) people have found far easier ways to get them.
Most games the best stuff can't be had in a month..oh hell less than that for some of you.

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Well....see what happens when Mother goes away for a couple hours? The naughty little children go WAAAAY off topic.

A few people managed to stay on topic and I thank you.

Now then...if you've not already responded on whether or not you'd like to see ANet give at least a -short- explanation of the update, please do. Otherwise, if it's not on topic, Principa will smite you and this thread.

Aww I tried, but it was all thier fault. Now where's that key to the liquor cabinet?

WeiPing · Jul 14, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

They've said in the past that the most effective mode of play should also be the most fun mode of play.

That's their reasoning. Farming isn't fun. It's boring, tedious, and only the most simple minded can do it for more than a few hours.

This game is not built around getting the bestest equipment in the game. The difference between getting the best sword ever seen and some random sword is very, very, very small. People who collect 100p and over are fooling themselves if they think any of that matters. Wealth doesn't matter...the game isn't focused on economy, or at least, that's not what the developers had planned.

Farming is stupid and it's not the way they want people playing their game.

smitty-gw · Jul 14, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I absolutely agree with you....I don't think that what ArenaNet is doing is going to work....but I'm pretty sure(kinda sorta sure) that this is what they are attempting to do. Remove the gold from the economy and drop the prices on the "fixed price" items....Do I think it's possible at this point...absolutely not. They didn't plan for this and they didn't expect it(I'm not sure why or how but it's obvious that they didn't)...and at the point the game is at now they need to start brainstorming a different fix for this. Because removing the gold fom the economy in an attempt to bring prices down to a reasonable level....isn't reachable in a time frame that will keep anyone interested in playing.

absolutely, 100% agreed.

Aniewiel · Jul 14, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Aww I tried, but it was all thier fault. Now where's that key to the liquor cabinet?

*slips off the topic rock and laughs uproariously*

Ahem!Yes, well...let's continue on, shall we?

Damon Windwalker · Jul 14, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Damon: How is the price of armor a constant? because you can't change it? the developers can change whatever they want...armor isn't a fixed price. It's just not an item that fluctuates. If Arena were so inclined they could change the prices of armor to be anything they wanted it to be...it's not fixed price...it's "fixed price to you"....it can still be changed at any time. Armor is a gold sink, it takes gold out of the economy and does nothing with it....if the gold isn't there anymore how can they possible charge you for it.

Ok - of course anything *can* be changed. But what I mean is that in the current economic model of the game, the price of some things (such as armor) do not fluxuate based on supply and demand as do the goods of some of the traders (materials, dyes, etc).

If you set everything to a "supply and demand" driven economic model, then reduce the amount of money available, all prices will fluctuate based on supply and demand, and the economy will eventually settle out. However, if you keep some things at a fixed price model and others at a fluctuating model, then the economy may stabalize for some things, but not for others.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 14, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

Farming is stupid and it's not the way they want people playing their game.

Then why put in items that you can only get by farming (such as fissure armor)?

I agree that it's stupid - but it's also a means to an end...

*Edit - just a thought - why not make that soemthing you can only get through some extremely difficult quests - not based on having to buy for incredible sums o money?

Tuna · Jul 14, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

They've said in the past that the most effective mode of play should also be the most fun mode of play.

That's their reasoning. Farming isn't fun. It's boring, tedious, and only the most simple minded can do it for more than a few hours.

This game is not built around getting the bestest equipment in the game. The difference between getting the best sword ever seen and some random sword is very, very, very small. People who collect 100p and over are fooling themselves if they think any of that matters. Wealth doesn't matter...the game isn't focused on economy, or at least, that's not what the developers had planned.

Farming is stupid and it's not the way they want people playing their game.

Quite frankly, the game is built around skills. Since there are 450 of them it takes grind to get 'em all. If they didn't want grind they should have created a different unlocking system rather than nerfing farming spots.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

yes 2-3 wins for a high rank guild

2-7 gvg wins (depending on guild level) doing what you would be doing anyway

peanuts for grind unless you consider the pvp you claim to love a grind?

That's not arena That's Guild Battles. No, I don't like grind.

Ba Ne · Jul 14, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

Farming isn't fun. It's boring, tedious, and only the most simple minded can do it for more than a few hours.

I hope you understand that your post is merely your opinion, which you are free to express of course. Just realize that not everyone, including myself, agrees with you and that your opinion, or mine, is not by any means the Tome of Truth.

As for the original topic: I, personally, would appreciate a statement from Anet regarding their future plans and what path they wish to steer their game down. I believe that keeping players in the loop is a good way to attract players that will appreciate their game as designed as well as tactfully repulse players that wouldn't be happy with it and try to make it something it is not.

Snowman · Jul 14, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

It seems to me that the problem is not about the update or the effects it having, its more about communication from Anet which seems to be the main frustration.

So to answer your original question, Aniewiel, I think the answer is a resounding and definite yes!

The last thing I remember Gaile saying was something like...
"don’t worry, those who want more challenges after ascension... your next!"

So I can understand why some people would look at this update and go...ummm.. Okay, so what happened?

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

No matter what sort of game they make, advertise no farming, no grinding, yadda, yadda
People will farm and grind no matter what. Though I find it hard to belive they (the designers) didn't take into account human nature, I'm beginning to wonder

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

They've said in the past that the most effective mode of play should also be the most fun mode of play.

That's their reasoning. Farming isn't fun. It's boring, tedious, and only the most simple minded can do it for more than a few hours.

This game is not built around getting the bestest equipment in the game. The difference between getting the best sword ever seen and some random sword is very, very, very small. People who collect 100p and over are fooling themselves if they think any of that matters. Wealth doesn't matter...the game isn't focused on economy, or at least, that's not what the developers had planned.

Farming is stupid and it's not the way they want people playing their game.

If everyone's skill is equal than that small difference may spell the difference between winning and losing. Athletes spend uber amounts of money just to gain fractions of a second. Cause that's all it takes to win.

Wealth doesn't matter? How do you plan to buy 60k guild hall? After 300 hours of game play, building wealth in the game is the only fun thing left to do. Now that they've nerfed everything I can't even do that. Thus GW is no longer fun.

King's Spectre · Jul 14, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Umm.. Yes, I'd like them to post when they make changes to the drop system. Would I still gripe about it? Probably.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

No matter what sort of game they make, advertise no farming, no grinding, yadda, yadda
People will farm and grind no matter what. Though I find it hard to belive they (the designers) didn't take into account human nature, I'm beginning to wonder

same here

/ponder

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

Umm.. Yes, I'd like them to post when they make changes to the drop system. Would I still gripe about it? Probably.

???

They are making changes to the drop system every week by nerfing good farming spots. That'swhy we're complaining.

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

It seems to me that the problem is not about the update or the effects it having, its more about communication from Anet which seems to be the main frustration.

So to answer your original question, Aniewiel, I think the answer is a resounding and definite yes!

The last thing I remember Gaile saying was something like...
"don’t worry, those who want more challenges after ascension... your next!"

So I can understand why some people would look at this update and go...ummm.. Okay, so what happened?

...and back to the topic lol

Which is one of the problems with expecting constant explanations- If they say one thing and make a change which might seem contradictory to a previous comment, you get into the whole "What happened? "You promised us this or that" senario. Some changes are for reasons we don't need to know the gory details about.